Help! Problem area - What to do?
Submitted by 3rdpigkid on Sat, 03/22/2008 - 10:24
Hi all y'all,
I have an area that I'm contemplating this year as I'm sure many of you either have or had at one time or another. My space is a sloped area at my back door that is probably about 10+ feet wide between my house and the neighbors fence. The area concerned is about 30+ feet long. When we get heavy rains it turns into a river. We need to replace our back porch and it has to be the same size unfortunately because I'd like to at least make it big enough to put a small table and chairs just for having coffe in the morning or whatever. Although I probably can make the porch 'longer', I can't make it 'wider'. This area used to be a large herb garden but I moved all the herbs out last year, leaving the garden gravel, because we knew we were going to have to tear it up to replace the porch. Now that weeds and ivy have overtaken the area, the time has come to do the job.
Along the bottom of the slope is our garage. We have our barbecue pits in that area. I'd like to put a patio of pavers or preferably flag stone there so we can still use that galley-type area to bbq since we have sort of an outdoor kitchen set up in the garage. Beyond that area, it goes out into our backyard where I plan on continuing the flagstone patio area. The transition between the two patios would be a stepping stone path.
As I said the area turns into a river when it rains and the gravel tends to flow with the river down into the 'patio' area. My guess is this would be a perfect place for a French drain but I'm wondering if that's feasible and I'm supposing it would have to continue under the patio area. I'm not sure how to accomplish that part.
I'll try to post pictures later so you can see what I'm talking about better. I'm looking for ideas/solutions. Also, wondering if there are any landscaping softwares out there that are free and easy to use so I can map this stuff out. Any ideas?
Thanks, everyone!
Lucy - aka 3rdpigkid
Some more thoughts!
That definitly is a challenge!
I would suggest making flat topped terraces so water will soak in rather then just run off with all the soil/gravel that is on the slope. Terracing helps to prevent soil errosion and creates a nice flat area for gardens. This will limit any need for drainage since rain water will soak in limiting the need for watering also.
You wil need to back fill at the top of the slope and build a retaining wall to keep the soil in place. You can use railway ties for the wall, or interlocking blocks. Interlocking blocks is a permanent solution since the rail ties will rot eventually. At the top, when you back fill, slope the ground towards the front of the house so water will not run off the retaining wall.
Using the blocks you can create (my guess from your photos) 3 terraces with stairs (made from paving stones to connect them all) down to the area at the bottom of the slope, where you can create another flat area for a patio.
Ron ~ zone 6b ~ Ontario
Ron ~ zone 6b ~ Ontario
French Drains
I guess French drains are pretty much a generic catch all for all kinds of jury-rigged structures form open ditches to elaborate underground catchments.
I guess I was thinking of something to collect the oveflow at the bottom of the feature and take it undrground to some more distant location to be released. You are going to have to study your options for that as you know the intracacies of the site.
Wes
"He who plants a tree, plants hope" Lucy Larcom
Thoughts regarding the river.
This one is tough as I assume there is no way to divert water away before it reaches this area. That being the assumption, you might want to take your lemon and try to make lemonade?
Would it be possible to construct a recirculating stream water feature that will also serve to channel storm water runoff? The "stream", would need to be sized to handle the storm volume and have an overflow accomodation at the bottom to remove the excess water to get the water off somewhere where it is not a problem. This is where a french drain may come in.
Also be sure any water coming from the roof is guttered and diverted so it dosen't enter into the alley area.
I'm sure there are other ides and alternatives that can be considered. Your biggest limitation may be your wllet tho.
"He who plants a tree, plants hope" Lucy Larcom
I like lemonade like this!!
I understand what you say about making sure the 'stream' is sized properly to handle extra water during a storm - I can picture that. I'm not picturing the overflow accommodation at the bottom and how that can tie into a French drain.
I suppose I could somehow tier around the edges of the overflow at the bottom and arrange a French drain in the upper tier somewhere so that when the overflow gets too much water (in the upper tier), it spills into the French drain. Does that make sense? Is that what you were thinking?
If that's the case, I suppose I could put the French drain to flow under the area where the barbecue pits are located starting at the dropoff point which is about where the bottom overflow would be - that area is at a slight downhill slope (towards the camera in the picture). I have the gravel and drain pipe already.
Check out my trade list!!
A couple thoughts- the porch
Obviously you are hemmed in by a set back, thus no widening of the porch.
One thing you can do is make the porch longer in the direction away from the steps and create the tea table nook there. If it isn't wide enough, you could make the end rail into a 18 inch wide table top that a couple of chairs can be pulled up to. You can't sit opposite some one but you could rub elbows. The biggest hassle I see is the problem of the door swinging open in the way when you come out with that cup of coffee and want to head for the table.
"He who plants a tree, plants hope" Lucy Larcom
Yes, that was my plan...
Yes, that was my plan...to extend the porch back away from the steps and just deal with getting around the door with a cup of coffee...I also like your idea about building the table into the end rail - that would be good enough for me...
Check out my trade list!!
Ok, here's some pictures I took...don't laugh!!!
At the bottom of our stairs is a small ledge, probably about 6 or 8 inches give or take...I'm not looking to make this the most beautiful garden spot. When my herb garden was there, it was quite nice. For the new patio site picture, I am pretty much standing where the patio would end and a stepping stone path would begin. The asphault you see on the left is the driveway area into the 'garage' - it's actually a carport that has a garage door onthe other side from this picture - it was like that when we bought the house. We plan to build a wall here to really make it a garage - that's another project that will probably be going on during all this...The thing I hate about my house is you can't see the backyard from the house - you have to walk through the area pictured to get there.
Anyway, what do you guys think? Any ideas? Don't laugh at my broken down stairs!! Or, my hideous awning!! Can't wait to hear from ya!!
Check out my trade list!!
I'll post pictures in the next couple of days...
Check out my trade list!!
I'm here!
I would love to see some photos of the areas you are talking about. photos will give me reams of information I can play around with. Your area sounds like a real challenge!
Thanks for the vote of confidence Randy!
Ron ~ zone 6b ~ Ontario
Ron ~ zone 6b ~ Ontario
I wouldn't know where to